there are decades when nothing happens
and there are weeks when decades happen
in the new world for weeks Read days and
now in just 24 hours Britain voted to
leave the EU the Prime Minister
announced his departure from 10 dowy
Street the Scottish government declared
it wanted out of Britain and Ireland's
largest party said that now was the time
for the north of Ireland to exit the UK
it's Panic stations amongst the r Elites
all that was solid to them is melting
into air the sacred tenants of
neoliberalism are being profaned in this
special edition of Sputnik we're looking
at how the B lines now stand from two
very different political perspectives
first up British Broadcasting royalty
Selena Scott she first interviewed me on
television when I was a teenager
although she introduced me as George
Gallows rather smartly I think for a
19-year-old I answered you'll swing for
that Selena finally we meet again alas I
recall it but you don't it was much more
significant to me it too it was too many
years ago I'm not admitting to it
actually George now look uh you very
famously one wondrously uh tussled with
uh with Donald Trump for uh two weeks in
making a one-hour documentary do you see
this result as being a part of the same
phenomena as the rise of Donald Trump
maybe even the rise of of Jeremy Corbin
a rejection of the prevailing Orthodoxy
absolutely uh and it's taken a political
earthquake as you've so rightly just
said for us to get rid of this
unaccountable group of people at
Brussels Elite who influence our lives
in every single respect and there is
there is no Outlet now for people who
want to campaign against something
that's been decided in Brussels you
can't go to your local MP like they used
to come to you saying George you know
will you do something for me i' I'm
stuck you know the the impoverished the
desperate have no Outlet so this
referendum has been an absolute godsend
for them but uh yeah we're famous for
the old phrase keep calm and carry on
but Britain seems to have gone into a
bit of a Tiz over this Democratic result
we've got londoners campaigning for
Independence we've got the Scots
threatening to leave people even
preparing to march in the Streets of
London against the decision of the
British people just a few hours before
yeah it's the halves and the have not
it's the
and it's the poor I never thought I'd
hear myself saying this about this
country but I I come from the north I
come to London I see London almost as a
different planet and I think the EU
thinks London is Britain but you go to
Yorkshire and you you look at Reka you
look at middlesbor which is just North
of me you look at Hull you look at
Whitby you go to you go to Scotland and
you look at peterhead and you look at
Fraser and you see the devastation and
Michael Gove was right about one thing
the hollowing out of communities not
just losing jobs it's the community fi
that goes and when they have there's no
legitimate means of expression you're
lost I mean recently uh Cameron went
into the Paris Accord the climate Accord
uh they all whined and dined and came up
with this great decision about saving
the planet the very next day he
announced fracking an imposed fracking
on a on a whole pile of people near
where I live live and there is no
legitimate means of stopping this the
local MP went off to uh America payre
out of his own pocket he said to find
out how fracking would damage Yorkshire
came back said everything's absolutely
fine it's wonderful can't get him
through Freedom of Information because
he's paid for it out of his own pocket
uh and of course the EU turns around and
says we have a liberal energy policy so
the energy companies must monitor
themselves so Barkley's bank has moved
in has bought up Energy company that's
going to start to frack and no one can
do anything about it end of subject it's
the winners in globalization against the
losers in globalization isn't it and
there are more losers than there are
winners uh and that's seen regionally as
you've just uh vividly pointed out but
it's it's seen also uh within London so
for example uh in inner London where
people EMP employ European nannies and
cleaners and their espresso machiato is
served by a low paid East European
waitress uh but also in London in places
like barking and dagenham uh there was
an overwhelming majority to leave the EU
so it's A Tale of Two Cities even in
London it is I mean I was at a debate
the other night and uh there was um a
black girl there uh a teacher uh I
forget her name so I hope she forgives
me if she sees me today but she was like
a star she set about uh Anna subri as it
was you know the conservative uh
Minister who it was this kind of
patronizing attitude that you know
somehow the wealth of London is there
for the benefit of people who are in
power who are in politics and that Great
Divide I mean it's is is obviously going
to have to come to an end uh you put
earlier very rightly that it's actually
between a have and a Have Nots now
because
this whole leave the EU um campaign and
sentiment was was sphe headed by the by
Nigel farage in a popular way it is very
much branded as a racist thing to leave
out yes how how did you how did you deal
with that argument and well I I think
that that argument uh is is is
absolutely uh totally wrong you
obviously there are people in there
somewhere that may see this from a
racist point of view but the majority of
British people
are well integrated I would never ever
consider the color of somebody's skin to
determine whether I you know voted for
immigration or out of immigration
immigration is a political issue it's to
do with the public services that are
available the shelter that's available
the way that we can govern our country
and allow people of all kinds of
different n races and nationalities to
come in and integrate but it's to to
blame it on the people I mean I think is
a is deceitful actually well of course
the great majority of Europeans are
quite Europeans and they have free
movement uh of Labor coming in so there
is no race question per se uh because
Polish people are as white as you or me
if we were in Poland no one could tell
we were British and uh vice versa uh as
a matter of fact uh the working people
of all colors like the black woman you
said was in your debate like the many
nearly 40% of uh Asians for example in
Britain voted out of the EU for them
it's about numbers not colors exactly if
you have uh an unlimited labor Supply
then you can only drive the price of
Labor I.E wages down and you can only
drive the number of job opportunities
down and put pressure on public service
uh that has suffered a great deal of
cuts in the course of the auster
I I I think I think the interesting
thing is that the poor can always
imagine what it's like to be rich you
know they can think about the holidays
the cars you know the the health care uh
but it's extremely difficult for the
rich to imagine themselves being poor
and what it means to be poor you know if
you've got kids that need help if if
you're stuck with a hospital that can't
help you because of the numbers of
people who are demanding care uh you you
to to be poor is I think uh just the the
one of the worst things and yet I don't
think people actually understand what it
what it is like to be that as Jimmy
duranti once said I've been rich and
I've been poor and I believe me rich is
better uh the uh political consequences
of course are now being played out David
Cameron who who gave us this referendum
uh didn't have to uh and who chose the
timing and led the campaign has
necessarily uh announced his
departure uh some people say that that
will give us then a a Tory government
even more right-wing than his I don't
myself buy that I don't see that Boris
Johnson and Michael go any more
rightwing than David Cameron for me
they're two halves of the Bullington
Club throwing uh bread rolls at each
other uh who do you think is going to
succeed and don't you think that before
they go into these negotiations now with
the EU the new prime minister uh will
need to seek a democratic mandate
through a general election yes I I think
so I I I can't imagine we can get past a
conservative party conference without
having a general election in October uh
I we're we're talking now about uh uh
debates that are still going on I mean
the remain can't feel that they are
going to come out in March that they
feel extremely strongly petitions yeah I
mean this is the other social media yes
I mean the thing is you know that
petitions are seen to be the way forward
but I I uh I I brought up this issue the
other day about Animal Welfare I'm not
an animal rights activist but I care
like a lot of people in this country
care about the way we treat our animals
this planet is not for human beings it's
not our placeing we live it we live in
it with a whole lot of other creatures
as well the EU has taken the view that
animals are Commodities a bit like they
take the view that people the labor
market are Commodities that's what they
think of the workers they do but they
they put these poor creatures into
trucks and they they push them across
the continent thousands of miles in
inhumane conditions and they end up in
abattoirs unregulated North Africa the
Middle East and there's not one thing we
can do about it other than get onto the
internet and petition it but the this
government and previous governments have
just colluded with the EU on all of this
for all these years and it seems to me
back in the Middle Ages in this country
the commoners were petitioning King
Henry III I think before we went into a
bloody Civil War and then we went on
down the years with martyrdom and two
world wars were fought and then of
course the suffragettes allowed me to
have a vote and then they turn around
and say well yes you know we decide you
know if we want to send animals all the
way across the continent we will do so
and we don't care what you say well no
one elects these people who uh who rule
us from Europe and no one can remove
them no one need even know their name I
just learned uh moments ago that
Britain's commissioner a lord so a
doubly unelected an unelected Lord who
is the unelected British commissioner at
the European Union has just resigned his
name is Hill I was going to ask what his
name was Hill but more a mole hill uh
because I'd never heard of him still Les
had n in his uh lavish no doubt uh
lavish uh appointment now the uh you I
think could be described as a as a
conservative uh
supporter uh no actually no am I wrong
no no no absolutely you know wrong then
I beg your pardon I should think so when
you said conservative I thought you
meant little C yes uh but when you say
conservative Big C no I I feel very
strong I feel very strongly that the
conservative party just you sticks
together like sheep once a conservative
group say that's it that's it well I was
seeking to segue into uh making making
you give me your tip uh for going to be
the next Prim Minister prime minister we
both know Michael Gove I think uh he's a
very clever fellow should be the next
Minister pretty decent fellow in my
opinion more decent than his Rivals uh
do you think he has a fighting chance or
do you think Boris Johnson's got it in
the bag I I don't think Boris has got it
in the bag uh the as I said earlier the
conservative party grouped together and
I if they don't want Boris they won't
have Boris it seems to me there seems to
be much talk about Theresa May but so
you know she she should have spoken up
earlier it seems to me if she wanted
worthy worthy but dull in my opinion
Selena Scott thank you it's wonderful to
see you again thank coming up next more
on the results of the EU referendum stay
tuned
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welcome back to Sputnik most sensible
people understand the brexit vote was in
part a rejection by the working class of
the prevailing neoliberal Orthodoxy even
if they might not have put it quite like
that 40% of Labor voters chose to leave
and that doesn't even include the
millions of workingclass Labor voters
who' already left labor for ukip and
elsewhere many trade unions having lost
confidence in their own ability to
defend their members supported the EU to
do it for them one of those that didn't
was the rail and Maritime Union the rmt
and one of their leaders Alex Gordon
joins us now Alex I'm right am andai
this was the working class the have
knots the people without money saying
two fingers to A system that is actually
designed for and operated by those that
have got all the things that they don't
well I think there's a great deal of uh
discussion in the media in the immediate
aftermath of this tremendous vote uh of
what it represents in terms of different
segments of the population and you'll
see various commentators talking about
how young people voted for the European
Union or Scottish people voted for the
European Union but the clearest single
division that runs right the way through
this referendum vote is that
workingclass people could not be
persuaded to vote for the European Union
and in many cases voted against it in
massive numbers I mean the polling
numbers in workingclass constituencies
workingclass areas were exceptionally
high and there were anecdotal stories of
you know places like basilon uh in Essex
uh places in the Northeast where there
was very very heavy polling in solid
labor Heartland seats in the Northeast
such as Sunderland one one of the first
results to come in there was very very
heavy voting by working people rejecting
the European Union even in Glasgow and
yet the official Trade union bureaucracy
for the most part painted the EU as the
workers's friend why didn't the workers
see it that way well because it's a
completely untenable point of view and
uh we're not living in the Dark Ages
we're living where people have
televisions smartphones access to news
programs such as yours and wide access
through the internet to a variety of
sources and it's very very clear whether
you look at the plight of subsaharan
African refugees perishing in the
Mediterranean uh because of Fortress
Europe and because their economies have
been destroyed by the European Union
jumping dumping cheap subsidized
agricultural products on their countries
or whether you look at the pro policies
of austerity which the European
commission and the European Central Bank
have imposed on Greece Portugal Ireland
but also are part of the European Union
treaties it's very very clear that the
European Union has been attacking
welfare states attacking working people
uh from Lisbon to talin uh you know you
can see it right the way across the
piece and working people whatever some
politicians might think aren't stupid
well that's a key Point uh I think the
presumption was that they were stupid
and that the fear of something worse
would make them cling to nurse now there
are reasons to fear a continuation of
Tor government I think actually that
Johnson and Gove are not as quite as
rightwing as Cameron and Osborne but in
any case they are two cheeks of the same
backside uh from my point of view other
views are available uh but the point
surely is that we can vote them out
whereas we could not ever vote Out Mr
Tusk or her junker or the head of the
European Central Bank Etc and uh yes and
there's been this confection of project
fear uh which has been particularly
promoted by a lot of leftwing supporters
of the r remain campaign that are vote
to come out of the European Union was
going to lead to some sort of fantasy
Coalition between Nigel farage uh a man
who has one MP in the house stand
him and Boris Johnson I mean Boris
Johnson couldn't open a supermarket
without being attacked by a Tory MP he
is reviled by at least 50% of his own
parliamentary party if not more uh the
fact is this vote was never going to
create a stable right-wing Tory post
brexit government it was only lik to
have one outcome and that was to bring
the conservative government down and
anyone who had any kind of objective
analysis
of what was likely to happen could see
that that was true and yet there have
been Legions of well-paid
left-wing political commentators who
have been telling voters exactly the
opposite that's absolutely correct on
the other hand everything we said in the
campaign has already come to pass the
people did vote to leave the
workingclass voted overwhelmingly to
leave David Cameron has had to leave
George Osborne is toasted
and they're already talking about the
untenability
of Boris Johnson government taking
Britain into these negotiations without
a general election so we're going to get
a general election either at the end of
this year or at the beginning of next
I.E several years before we would have
got one uh and therefore the possibility
of the Tories being out altogether is
suddenly upon us and indeed uh last
night the uh online news Source uh Ur
active which closely follows Brussels uh
Insider political developments was
briefing that senior Tor sources in
Brussels had told them that the
timetable for a general election was
going to be November in other words the
Tores are going to have a
leadership uh competition now they don't
know who the various Runners and Riders
will be but they'll complete that before
their conference in September they'll
call the election in October and the
election will take place in November so
what they're hoping to do of course is
to have a brexit uh position for that
election uh what the labor party needs
to learn from this if it can is that it
needs to recover its credibility with
the masses of working-class Voters who
rejected the European Union and get
behind them and to come up with a
credible raft of policies behind Jeremy
Corbin's leadership uh which will uh let
the labor party go into to a November
election uh behind socially Progressive
policies taking control of our Railways
back into public ownership stopping any
more possibility of the privatization of
the National Health Service getting hold
of the energy companies and putting them
back into public ownership uh
controlling prices uh of gas electricity
uh Etc there's a whole series of
progressive policies that are now
possible because of that vote to leave
the European Union that would have conf
flicted with Britain's commitments under
EU treaties had Jeremy Corbin advocated
them before uh Thursday's vote and yet
and yet instead of that uh the very
people for whom Jeremy Corbin was out
campaigning I believe against his better
instincts when he campaigned for a
Romain vote those very people who most
believe in the Romain cause are now
planning on Tuesday uh to stab him in
the back and create a crisis inside the
labor party at a time when the Tory
party is falling
apart indeed they are and I think to be
fair to those people uh they would have
done this whatever the results the
person that they've put up uh to
challenge Jeremy at the moment seems to
be one Margaret Hodge uh whose own
constituents of course voted by a very
substantial minority uh in East London
uh in favor of leave d Margaret Hodge to
give her her Sunday name uh is of course
uh her and her husband are not
millionaires but
billionaires uh that doesn't make her a
bad person but it makes her a slightly
incredible standard Bearer for the
challenge against uh Jeremy Corbin well
I think uh their problem is that they
don't really have a credible blairite
candidate um and that that's been quite
obvious during the last uh during the
last year
uh it's very difficult to imagine uh
somebody such as Chua amuna yeah who was
just gabbling on Thursday night uh
Friday morning uh simply had no idea how
to respond to the evidence uh of
workingclass distaste and rejection of
the European Union that was unfolding
before his eyes uh it's very difficult
to think of who exactly they're going to
put up who could be a credible leader of
the labor party certainly I don't see
anyone who could uh beat Jeremy Corbin
in a straightforward fight in a vote
amongst ordinary labor supporters where
Jeremy is still by Far and Away the most
popular labor leader that has been for
many many years amongst his own
membership it may be that they're going
to follow what I call the Joe Haynes
strategy of electing their own leader in
Parliament uh who will de facto become
the official leader of the opposition
and the dispenser of the short money
millions of pounds of taxpayers money
that uh is given to the leader of the
opposition so Jeremy would then be the
leader of the labor party in the country
but the Parliamentary labor party would
have a different leader and uh the the
word on the street is a fellow called
Dan Jarvis a former
paratrooper uh that uh he'll be the
official leader of the opposition and
Jeremy can go and tour the
shers yeah I mean will that work uh what
you are see I mean this is not a
Fantastical speculation because as you
say Joe Haynes has written about it
openly in the new Statesman as his uh
methodology for how to uh hold a coup in
the labor party but let's be clear about
this uh firstly labor party members
would not stand for that secondly the
trade Unions would not support uh such a
move and the one thing you can say about
the labor movement is that we do
remember our history and this has been
done before this is shades of Ramsey
McDonald and if there was an attempt to
lead such a coup uh to set up a
government of national Unity with Blair
rights and pro-european or pro-eu Tories
and libdems for example which is another
uh another discussion uh then the trade
Unions would have to if they understand
their history make it very clear that
they're sticking by the elected leader
of the labor party so I think anyone who
tried to carry out the Joe Haynes
strategy that you're talking about would
clearly lead to a break between their
grouping and the Trade union Affiliated
party well I think the blairites have a
very unstable Prospect anyway with the
chilot report coming out in less than a
month absolutely that's before we even
mention chok don't mention the war not
least because we've run out of time Alex
Gordon thanks for joining us on board
the Sputnik you can stay in touch with
us on rtor Sputnik or Facebook Sputnik
on Russia today it's goodbye for me
gatri and from me George Galloway it's
been marvelous
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